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Karune, Blizzard’s RTS community manager, has posted this month’s official discussion on Battle.net, requesting fan feedback for a highly interesting topic, and a fundamental mechanic of the game - the Zerg’s new and improved creep.
The StarCraft 1 Creep only slightly benefited the Zerg race, having little importance during actual combat. The StarCraft 2 Creep has been designed to be nothing like that - its effects have already been mentioned in the past, and using this opportunity, Karune revealed even more juicy details about the new and improved mechanics.
One of the distinct features of the Zerg is their fast movement, quick reactions and their large numbers. With the newest changes to the StarCraft II build these attributes are bound to reinforced once more.
Here are a couple of changes to the Zerg:
- Zerg units except Drones can now move 30% faster on creep
- Creep Tumors are smaller and burrowed
Creeping down the ramp
The above improvements join a long array of advantages that the StarCraft 2 Zerg have received in their home turf. Considering the Swarm units created by destroyed buildings, the omnipresent Zerg Queen, which can turn buildings into turrets via its Swarm Infestation ability and has a multitude of other defensive abilities, and the additional stationary defenses, defeating a Zerg army inside its base may become a very difficult task. Another important thing to remember is the Overlord’s creep laying ability, allowing the Zerg to take advantage of Creep even on the offense.
Here are this month’s official questions from Blizzard:
What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
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How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
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Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
Additionally, the SC2 Blog’s questions are:
1) Should creep affect enemy units as well?
2) Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
3) Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
As with last month’s discussion, Blizzard has selected a major, fundamental topic to receive feedback from fans for. Like the Vespene Geysers, Creep will have a major impact on many aspects of matches involving the Zerg race in StarCraft 2. As always, this is your chance to influence the direction the game is heading to.
27 Comments to “StarCraft 2 September Discussion Topic: Zerg Creep”
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Love the change.
and I have actually been suggesting that on the major forum for months… so I am just glad that something similar rolled out finally…
however, I also previously talked about Protoss gaining some armor and damage upgrade under the effects of a phase prism of pylon. (which makes sense, after all, if your armor is ‘plugged’ it will be more powerful.)
If Protoss can get that as well, then I think it be even.
Yes!! First post!! well, i kind of like the benefits for zergs on its own creep, but i do not see any reason why protoss shouldn’t have the same too. cause we need pylons to power buildings, so it should have an effect to the units too, not in the sense of movement speed, but like warping units into the battlefield, which is already a feature. besides that, protoss in the pylon field should have a faster shield regen as well as slight damage bonus etc.
i feel that there shouldnt be any disadvantages to the enemy on zerg creeps, because it will make the zerg base very hard to destroy. same goes to the protoss…but there is a downfall to this, the terran has no whatsoever bonus in its own base.
i like the new feature and i feel protoss should have it too, for the terrans…well, hope you guys can think smthing up for them
argh!! missed the first post..:)
Please do not do this “first post” stuff.
What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I’ll have to see it actually in use to have a fuller opinion, but combined with the swarm effects from buildings it may be a bit much.( Though a lesser speed increase could be fine.)
How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
This change would seem to effect terrans the most, since they use a lot of ranged units, though perhaps newer strategies with vikings and medivac drops change this a bit and are less effected by the speed boost. I do see it causing some possible problems for reapers.
Protoss seem less effected, since they have a lot of high hit point units and close combat units.
With zerg I’m not sure either way.
Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
It’s a nice change, but as said earlier, combined with the “buildings spawn units when they die”, it may be a bit much.
1) Should creep affect enemy units as well?
I don’t see any reason either way on this, if someone tries it out and balances it well, I’d be fine with it.
2) Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
New tactical aspects are always fine. It does seem like it may help zerg somewhat with a more turtlish style of play if they want to.
3) Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
if someone can balance it, some sort of “pylons help protoss forces” mechanic is fine by me.
Cool stuff indeed. It would make sense for the Protoss to get something more as well, maybe faster unit shield regeneration within pylon range. Then give nothing to the terrans, another instance where two races have something the third don’t. The terrans being so mobile now could “draw-out” their enemies fighting in the field while the Zerg and Toss suddenly start turtling more…
I have a concern that has bothered me since the Zerg unveiling. In order for the Nydus Worm to form an exit, the overlord has to vomit creep on the ground… I find that idea to be unrealistic, uncreative, and lame.
I think that the overlord should, instead of puking its guts out, act as a sensor beacon to relay the exit coordinates for the Worm. It would have to stay in one place for X amount of seconds, and only then would the worm be able to form an exit.
This would indeed add a new element of terror for the enemies of the Zerg; never knowing when a stray overlord might summon a Nydus Worm.
P.S. I think that spreading the Zerg creep on mineral patches so non-Zerg players can’t set up a base is cheap. I can just see some 8 year-old doing that because he doesn’t know how to play the game….
It would make more sense if the creep slowed down enemy units. Why does a special ground cover confer speed to just some units? Zerg can easily maneuver on creep; enemies can’t. It’s slimy or whatever.
I want to see a cut-scene of a Vulture fish-tailing/spinning out on Creep and exploding on impact with something. That would be AWESOME.
I like the speeding up effect on zerg. Zerg has been always expand first and defend little type because it is far more easier than to turtle inside because choking points with building is almost impossible. now with more speed, zerg players have more choice.
However I think that the effect should only be applied to zerg or slowing down effects be applied to other races. One or the other.
On protoss side, I don’t think protoss players need additional benefits when they can warp into any region directly from gateways. I think that alone is already pretty big advantage. But sticking to the lore, if closer area has been attacked and there aren’t immediate danger, troops moving to help the ally would be pretty cool. Protoss can supposedly see and feel on collective sense, yes?
1. What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I think drones are disadvantaged when enemy zerg attack.
2. How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
It gives Zerg units a good advantage against both ground and airborne enemy units. It also makes Zerg vs Zerg matches appear very fast when attacking!
3. Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I like it… so long as units still regenerate faster on creep as well. However, I want the zerg to be fast otherwise as well; I don’t want them getting really slow as soon as they hit non-creep land. I’d rather not feel that ‘thunk’, otherwise I might not feel very adventurous, and just have my zerglings do laps around my hatcheries all day long…
1) Should creep affect enemy units as well?
It would be interesting to see. Given that the current zerg acceleration rate is + 30%, I would like to see that made to +15% for zerg and -15% for other races. It makes sense that enemy units would have trouble moving on it, and it wouldn’t feel like such an enormous change in speed, while still having the same effect in the typical scenario. It would have secondary effects as well, with other units not wanting to go on creep.
2) Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
No. Use the creep as much as possible. People see it and ask what it is. The more real attributes it has, the better.
3) Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
Hmm I am not sure. It’s a very different world. Do they still have shield batteries? That would kind of compete with the ’shield regen boost’ effect. Perhaps energy regen, something very different from the zerg’s advantage.
Ok, Zerg units speed up on creep. Protoss units gain faster shield regeneration in pylon range seems to be a good idea to me. How about Terran ranged units gain addition damage when firing at enemies in the range of the sensor tower or radar tower or whatever they call it? (Because it’s reasonable that the sensor tower can detect the enemies’ weak points and Terrant ranged units can kill them faster.)
My view is that Protoss should have higher armour since the energy ‘logically’ power up them.
Secondly, terran units should have increased attack speed when near the planetary fortress for fainress, and ‘logically’ since it’s a fortress, bound to have lots of ammo to use.
I feel that if zerg creeps were to slow enemy speed. I feel that would be too pain. Why not follow another trait in a starcraft novel? Reduced sight. Maybe some tactics can be used which was never available for zergs.
Although, i think that the creeps should benefit all zergs units, after thinking much(and remembering the vampiric arua in warcraft III ladder)I think it will be frustrating for the attacked zerg player when the creep helps the enemy zerg too. So no, creep should only benefit the zerg player.(erm..do you get what i mean).
What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I think that it’s definitely an interesting idea, and it’s cool that blizzard is trying to add differentiation between the races. But the problem is that this power must be balanced to allow zerg vulnerability to a rush, without nerfing the zerg units so much that they can’t rush themselves. As such, I think this effect would be good as a tier 1 or tier 1.5 upgrade.
How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
Well, I think the biggest deal is that protoss and terran need a straightforward way to actively remove creep from the map. Creep is starting to have a large number of effects, like building damage and speed boosts, but it still can’t be removed directly or quickly by any race. Also, from a lore standpoint, it makes sense that both the terran and the toss would have figured out a way to burn creep at this point. The creep-elimination method doesn’t have to be easy, but it should exist.
Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I’m not sure. My biggest concern is that with all the buff that creep confers zerg, and all the penalties it confers enemies, it will become an absolute necessity for any zerg attack plan. If a strategy becomes so important that it becomes necessary, then you’ve actually cut down on the variety of strategies, instead of increasing it.
Q: What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
A: I think it’s a really interesting idea, although I would guess 30% is abit much. Instead of a zerg speed INCREASE I would really rather see a oponent speed DECREASE when on creep. Makes more sense lore wise for one thing… can you imagine trying to wade into battle through all that muck? Whereas Zerg have been wandering over it all their life, it wont effect them much.
How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
A: Well obvisously it’s a drastic effect for all three races. Make it much harder for other races to attack the zerg at home with land units. Forces Terran and Protoss to think harder about using air.
Q: Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
A: Overall I think it’s good changes… I have always wanted to see things like this ingame, where the creep had more of an effect, because I think it’s really interesting. Again, I would rather see it slow enemy’s, increase zerg regen rate, and damage enemy buildings… I think that’s a good way to do it. Also, I *DONT* like the creep tumors being burrowed…. thats crazy… take it away. If were making creep more of something to be delt with in the game, then we shouldnt be making it HARDER to destroy… should be easier
1) Should creep affect enemy units as well?
A: Yes. It should slow them.
2) Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
A: No.
3) Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
A: Absolutly! they should enjoy increased erergy regen-rates for their spellcasters, and *MAYBE* a slight increase in shield regen rates.
I think I’m starting to lose the sc2 hype
maybe we should just play Dinoparc.com
Q: What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
A: I’m split… On one side, creep affecting units seem like a good idea. It will just make the creep used more (and more intentionally) in game for strategic purposes, and it will add to the disgusting, swarming, creepy side of the Zerg. On the other side, any effect should obviously be beneficial to the zerg, and I don’t want to see zergs having the best defense out there, since I’ve always pictured them as a pretty much aggressive race.
The speed increase seem weird to me though. As Atican said (and possibly others), I’d find it more logical to have a speed decrease for non-zerg units (due to its slimy nature). Might be harder to balance though, I don’t know. Of course, this thing will have to be carefully balanced as not to make zerg bases too hard to attack (especially since they usually have more expands than other races).
Q: How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
A: Speed increase obviously handicaps enemies ranged units. Beyond that, it’s hard to tell without actually playing the game.
Q: Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
A: As it is currently, I don’t have a strong opinion either way as long as it is balanced, but I appreciate the research in that direction.
Q: Should creep affect enemy units as well?
A: yes, as said above.
Q: Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
A: no, not really. Just makes the game more interesting but also harder to balance ;-).
Q: Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
A: Could but doesn’t have to… A key idea behind SC is that races don’t have to match feature for feature, so other races don’t necessarily need anything similar, and even if the Protoss do end up with a similar idea, I hope the Terrans don’t, for the sake of keeping the races as dissimilar as possible. As others said, a shield regen bonus would fit the spirit of the Protoss. This is entirely up to balance though.
Also, I agree with Jeremy that a creep elimination method should exist. Alternatively, it should disappear very quickly once the “active source” of the creep is gone, but that would require overlords to keep unloading creep to maintain it, which could be a good thing: if you want to get rid of the creep invading your base, kill the overlord(s).
Q What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
A I find it to be a simple change that will allow some minor gameplay changes. I do not think it is over powered.
Q: How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
A: Zerg - will allow mid-game rushes
Protoss - Scout more vs zerg
Terran - Scout more vs zerg
However both T and P must scout zerg due to their ability to change tactics quickly.
Q: Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
A: Unsure, This will definitely allow higher APM zerg players to pull off a very good mid game rush. However it would be easily scouted as well.
Additionally, the SC2 Blog’s questions are:
1) Should creep affect enemy units as well?
I see no reason it should without a paid upgrade and even then I still favor NO.
2) Do you feel that this adds an additional, unneeded tactical aspect to the game?
Considering MBS(multi-building selection), auto-gathering, and way-pointed auto-attack rally points; this change is probably good for zerg as they can focus on some micro-management.
3) Should Protoss units enjoy similar buffs when in Pylon energy range?
This would not make for higher micro-management on the protoss player and most will not build 5-10 pylons stretching from one base to another base. Too expensive and time consuming.
Another reason I’d prefer +15% for zerg and -15% for other races: It makes ‘creeping’ with overlords more useful; rather than just being an offensive move, it can be also be used to slow down enemy paths.
For example: you see an enemy army leave their base, so you bring your army of mutalisks in from over the ridge. The enemy army turns back, but oh no! There’s creep everywhere from the overlords; they are slowed! the mutalisks can do more damage, before leaving when the army finally makes it back.
Another example: your zerglings are chasing down some zealots who are trying to run away, but oh no! there’s creep… thems are slowed! The zerglings are faster! Yay for the overlords!
Another reason I’d prefer +15% for zerg and -15% for other races: It makes ‘creeping’ with overlords more useful; rather than just being an offensive move, it can be also be used to slow down enemy paths.
For example: you see an enemy army leave their base, so you bring your army of mutalisks in from over the ridge. The enemy army turns back, but oh no! There’s creep everywhere from the overlords; they are slowed! the mutalisks can do more damage, before leaving when the army finally makes it back.
Another example: your zerglings are chasing down some zealots who are trying to run away, but oh no! there’s creep… thems are slowed! The zerglings are faster! Yay for the overlords!
I would actually prefer that the creep not speed up Zerg units at all. That doesn’t seem terribly logical to me - even if they like the stuff, goo isn’t going to make creatures with legs go quicker. As such, I would personally think that the speed effect would be wholly negative - More like -30% movement to non-Zerg units. If creep benefits Zerg at all, it should probably be in health regen.
That being said, the Protoss already get a huge benefit from their pylons - instantaneous reinforcement. Giving them statistical bonuses as well just sets up an equivalence that StarCraft doesn’t usually show and which is, frankly, unwarranted.
Will zerg unit still heal faster on creep ? like in BW ? How about allied zerg units ? How about flying units ?
…
It would be pretty awesome if burrowing on creep gave your units some sort of benefit. Even something as simple as “Zerg units burrow and unburrow in 50% the normal time while on creep” would make a lot of sense and go a long way towards making creep more terrifying.
I think it’s a great change, and yes the Protoss should get some buff when within the aura of the pylons, like faster shield Regen, or something. I like the idea of being dynamic and useful, and worth roping some anywhere you can. it’s a liking thing, like all the Zerg army, why can’t it be more deadly now too?
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