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This month’s discussion topic will span the next month and a half. The topic: Map making. After giving us a taste of the capabilities of the new ScumEdit map editor in two “Map Maker” Q&A batches (18 and 22), Blizzard now requires your input so it can perfect yet another aspect of StarCraft 2.
Over the years we have enjoyed watching our community show their creativity and create amazing maps and mods to our games. With StarCraft II we would like to encourage you to keep up the awesome work, so wed like to give you a tool, you will enjoy working with. We have already answered questions in our Q&A but now it is your turn to tell us what your ideal StarCraft II Editor would look like!
The new “ScumEdit” map editor will be much more functional and free of artificial limitations. As well, it will be more user friendly for low level users who do not need access to the more complex features. StarCraft 2’s editor features a powerful proprietary C-type scripting language, along with a simplified editing mode which features a more intuitive graphic interface.
Here are Karune’s questions for this discussion topic:
- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?
- How can we support the map making community more?
- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?
- Additional feedback you might have
Additionally, the SC2 Blog’s questions are:
1) How should map-locking be handled?
2) Should more players be allowed in custom games?
3) How unrestricted should the editor be? Should players be able to change the core concepts of the game? (basic gameplay mechanics, resources, etc)
Karune asks that you structure your answers in the following manner:
<question you’d like to answer>
<your answer>
<question you’d like to answer>
<your answer>
Even though most gamers do not bother with editors at all, all players eventually enjoy the fruits of the modding and map creating communities. The feedback provided now will end up shaping not only the available tools, but the battlefields created with them.
22 Comments to “StarCraft 2 Feb/March Discussion Topic: Map Making”
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Whoo-Hoo a new SC2 update!….what?….oh… a map editor update? boooooo.
right. pure trash!
Why trash! Its gold! (you know the saying
)
I mean - we have seen what has happened with WC3(and even SC).
The C-type language is great news. Who knows what sorts of crazy stuff we’ll be able to do with something as powerful as this.
If people do not like topics on map making then don’t read them!
my question: will editors be able to use unit speeches in map editing such as using jim raynor’s voice during mission briefings??
1.What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?
answer: we would certainly love to see the ability to use unit speeches in mission briefings as well as in-game unit conversations. that would certainly make map making even more interesting.
2. additional feedback you might have?
answer: well, as for me, I’d love to see more variety of triggers compared to the original SC. Additional triggers will make map editing even more flexible and editors will have uncountable ways to edit a map of their choice. it all depends on the editors’ creativity, as long as Blizzard provides us with the best! Keep the updates coming!
I’d like to see a detailed section in the manual, or a lengthy tutorial over how to use the editor.
I second that. I think the MOST IMPORTANT tool in a map maker is the TUTORIAL. I want to have directions so even the most unskilled computer nerds (me) will have an easy and enjoyable experience in making custom maps.
1) How should map-locking be handled?
Authors of maps should be able to set a password so that their maps can only be edited by those who know it. When I join a user made map on B.net, I want to know it’s the one I like and want to play and not one of the endless, useless variations people make that completely destroy the original map.
2) Should more players be allowed in custom games?
Sure. The 8-12 player limit in normal games has a purpose, but why not allow … 50 in a custom map? It should be technologically possible as long as each player doesn’t have TOO many units.
3) How unrestricted should the editor be? Should players be able to change the core concepts of the game? (basic gameplay mechanics, resources, etc)
Unrestricted all the way. FPS games usually allow total conversions with wonderful results - there’s no reason not to allow the same amount of freedom with StarCraft. If people want to invest the work required to produce something truly magnificent and different, why not let them?
1) How should map-locking be handled?
kinda like how pdf file work.
makers can lock or not-lock as he choose
so that others can just change a bit to fiddle with
2) Should more players be allowed in custom games?
Yes, definitely. i think players should be allowed as many as newsest computer can handle now with broadband speed.
3) How unrestricted should the editor be? Should players be able to change the core concepts of the game? (basic gameplay mechanics, resources, etc)
This one I am not sure but what I am sure is that if game is fun, mod community will shine as well. and mod community WILL find out how to change all the core stuff all they need even if it takes 10 years to do it
If it would be within Blizzard’s reach, I think it’d be great to add support to adding your own voices to the game through a text-speech translator.
I would like that Blizzard gives us a Tool like the “Warcraft Art Tools” for modeling and exporting models from 3Ds Max, Maya, Lightwave or other 3D software.
Also it would be cool if Blizzard could give us some kind of integrated 3D modeling and Texturing IDE inside the editor, to work with models and textures more easily.
Most Mod makers would agree that importing models or adding new textures can be used to make great maps and take the “modding” even further.
As a graphic artist, it would be cool if Blizzard takes my advice.
Sorry, the above post was in the category “additional feedback”.
- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?
I would say I’m an intermediate user of Blizzard’s map editors; I’m not a complex scripter, but I can use a lot of basic trigger systems, and I know my way around the editing windows.
While the WC3 editor was super-powerful, the trigger editing was incomprehensible to me; I couldn’t manage to figure out how to make even a simple “if player brings unit to area” event. This was completely unlike the SC editor, where all the triggers were pretty intuitive. As far as trigger editing goes, I would like to see ScumEdit have two editing modes: a simple interface based on StarEdit look&feel, and then an underlying more complex one, for modders that are more experienced. I felt like WC3’s editor was aimed at skilled scripters, which is good, but Blizzard did this at the expense of casual users like me.
I always wanted to upload my own skins to WC3Edit, and it was a big disappointment to me that, while I had lots of skill in Photoshop, I had no skill in the complex do-si-do it took to figure out how to actually import the skins. It would be nice if ScumEdit made it a little easier for us who just want to have some fun with skins—a built in skin-import/export system would do me a world of good.
On that note, I’m pretty okay with having modeling tools be restricted to those with extra programs or capabilities… it’s certainly a more complex form of modification, and more than I expect to be built in to the editor.
This is a smaller, cosmetic point, but I think we can expect to see a similar capability to change the RGB color balance of units… something that always bothered me in WC3 was that if you changed the color balance, you also changed the unit player color. I wonder if there isn’t a way to change that?
Most importantly, though, I agree with what has been said before: it is important to have a detailed tutorial in ScumEdit! Blizzard has been catastrophically negligent in their “Help” sections on both SC’s and WC3’s editors—we got just the bare functions and were left to fend for ourselves in the forums for help on what half of the functions do. I think a map editor’s help section has to be comprehensive, giving us the most information possible, not the least! This is another example of Blizzard aiming their map editors at experienced scripters, and I’m worried that with this new C-based system, non-programmers like me will be left behind in the dust.
- How can we support the map making community more?
I think Blizzard has done a pretty good job of that already—the rise and recognition of DotA is a prime example.
- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?
Again, I think having a nice “UMS” section on Battle.net for people who like custom games is a measure already taken and well-taken advantage of. The only issue I have with how Blizzard generally handles mods is… well, none. I mean, it would be nice if ScumEdit could be added-on to as easily as Firefox, but that seems a tad unlikely.
1) How should map-locking be handled?
Unfortunately, I think this is something that Blizzard got wrong in both WC3 and SC editors—map-locking was not a built-in feature, and a mod had to be downloaded for you to protect your content. This seems… just a little ghetto. I do think map-locking ought to be a feature built in to ScumEdit, if only for the ease of use. Maybe password-enabled, but that’s unnecessary.
2) Should more players be allowed in custom games?
I’m going to go with a “this is unnecessary” on this one. The WC3 limit worked pretty well for me, and I can’t really see where anyone would need 20 players in one custom map… if you want an MMORPG, go to WoW. If having this function means something else is axed, extra players should be tossed.
3) How unrestricted should the editor be? Should players be able to change the core concepts of the game? (basic gameplay mechanics, resources, etc)
Yes. After all, that’s where half the fun comes from Blizzard games; the ability to customize almost everything. And, as has been said, where ScumEdit fails to deliver, guaranteed someone will make a mod that picks up the slack. Personally, I’d like to factor out as much dependence on outside modding as possible, if only for the reduced risk of bugs.
- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?
I wish you could have AMM for popular custom games/maps (like DOTA in WC3). You’d select a game “type” (or even a particular map — but given the myriad variations of a given map, that might not work), and bnet would find an appropriate game for you. The trick would be to figure out a way to add new game types in a timely manner, but without having 1000 game types after the first month with 950 not really used.
As a (weaker) alternative, simply being able to search for games/maps containing some substring would already help a lot.
Also, having some specific ladders for popular kinds of map would nice too (because those can sometime use totally different/very specific skills than normal games).
1) How should map-locking be handled?
I don’t know how. I just wish it wouldn’t be possible to make 3600 maps appearing as “Big Game Hunter” but being named something else (with spaces and such not visible when joining).
I’m a amateur programmer and have two years of JASS2 scripting experience. Basically scripting support and event-driven trigger system was a great advance from Starcraft. However, limitations which appear as I get deeper makes me a bit unfulfilled.
- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?
1. Adding neutral players unaffected by player cap. Whether player cap is 8, 12, or whatsoever, map-defined neutral players should be available. Player cap should only apply to human and computer players.
2. Editing neutral players. In WC3, behavior neutral players’ from P13 to P16 are hard-coded. This made them hardly usable for a 6v6 AOS style map, since they won’t hit back when attacked by structures. Instead, they immediately retreat. Their vision are granted all over the map and impossible to turn off, ruining game systems.
3. Additional player color support. Number of player colors on WC3 is way too small.
4. Multi-targetable spell, which requires to select multiple targets in turn. (Different from AOE spells!)
5. Lightning effect with user-supplied textures should be available.
[Scripting/trigger]
6. Saving multiple values to individual units
7. Various data structure (Sets, tables, multi-dimensional arrays, associative arrays, etc.) support. Built-in arrays of WC3 is a real pain and this is why some advanced mapmakers prefer to use gamecache method, which can be used similar to tables. Support of multi-dimensional array is not an option. It’s an essential.
8. Basic OOP availability on scripting
9. Changing units’ names on the fly by trigger.
10. Event interception availability. Currently, processing Unit Damaged event cannot cancel or alter the damage itself. This poses a serious limitation since the event is fired BEFORE the damage is actually taken. On event fire, modification on cause or effect of the event should be available.
11. Localizable string support, such as a single string instance contains many localized strings.
12. User-UI interoperability. It’s nearly impossible to manipulate user UI with triggers. Also, trigger-defined items (similar to leaderboards) on the gameplay screen should be supported.
13. Custom dialog support. In WC3, the only way was to fake dialogs with multiple trackables. Included in #12.
14. Displaying text on a specific position should be possible.
15. All unit properties must be read/write accessible from triggers.
1) How should map-locking be handled?
Password-based encryption would be fine. I think map authors should be allowed to choose protection policy, whether to allow reading or not.
2) Should more players be allowed in custom games?
Starcraft limit is a bit small. 12 players like WC3 would just fit. Also, I think adding neutral players unaffected by player cap should be available.
3) How unrestricted should the editor be? Should players be able to change the core concepts of the game?
The editor should be unrestricted as much as possible. In WC3, I had to use trigger tricks to swap Gold and Lumber resources. User-level UI modification should be supported by the editor. Also, as I’ve already said, how individual abilities behave or show up on the UI should be programmable, whether through embedded script or UI options.
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